Hello Everyone,
Unfortunately, there will be no Part II to the
Dave Armstrong posting I did. The apologist contacted me and thanked me for my efforts, but no more will be needed on the matters at hand.
Sure. Glad to serve the Catholic Church and you, SIR!
However, there is one thing that bothered me on the attack from Mr. Armstrong, and it really did bother me because I felt it was quite heretical, not to mention blatanly offensive to the Church at Large, the majority of believers who attend Mass in the Roman Rite (the majority of the Catholic Church), and embarasses once more those of us who participate in any way, even occasionaly, the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite/Latin Mass.
In the attacks on Mr. Armstrong, the following statement was said by his assailant, which I will not link to, to prevent you from being exposed to spiritual evil and possible corruption of your souls, and that they deserve no more web hits feeding their Internet Troll-ism:
"As for my "bombastic" comments, they are reserved for those who undermine the faith, not the simple "Novus Ordo Catholic" which you will never find on this blog."
WHAT THE HECK? "SIMPLE" NOVUS ORDO CATHOLICS??????
This comment has a number of sick problems with it. I'll start with the theological/heretical problems with this statement, and then I will tackle it common sense, which I think might be the more powerful evidence that this statement is quite asinine.
Theological, Basic
This is foolish, even on a basic level. When Christ got together his Apostles, the 12 ordinary men from all walks of life, Christ did not summon only the elite and the wealthy to spread the Gospel and build his Church. If he wanted to turn to those who were the "elite" and/or with the most forceful and literal interpretation and knowledge of religious laws among the Jews, he would have taken 12 of the following: The Sanhedrin or other high/chief priests. Rabbis. Rich and wealthy in biblical times in Jerusalem. Popular scribes.
Jesus did NOT practice a spiritual elitism in his choice of people to carry out his mission. If he didn't want "simple" Jews, those who weren't the tops at practicing the law including the 613 Mitzvahs, he would have picked people from the above groups mentioned.
But he did not. He picked 12 ordinary men of the day and age, with the most wealthy or privileged being Matthew the Tax Collector, as in that time, as is this day and age, government jobs usually mean security and a fairly decent wage. Not to mention that Matthew, being the tax collector, got to take money from other people according to the Roman government's dictatum! But even Matthew wasn't "elite" or popular. In fact, as a tax collector, he was despicable to the common citizen because of his association with the Roman Empire as the guy who steals your hard earned money, only to give it to a corrupt and merciless government.
Christ clearly, even in his picking of his 12 Apostles, clearly shows that he did not want his Church to be one of popular prestige, nor that he only wanted perfect practitioners of the law to head it and demand the same rigoristic, non-merciful rendering of God's order and law to be part of his Church. That rendering, by the way, is purely how humans interpret the carrying out of the law, not necessarily the law in and of itself.
Theological, Advanced. Statement has Possible Traces of Heresy
The statements, also commits comments of a pseudo-Gnostic nautre. Gnosticism, of which the Church has condemned Gnosticism always in its history as heresy, is defined as by Wikipedia:
"Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός gnostikos, "having knowledge", from γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) is a modern term categorizing a collection of ancient religions whose adherents shunned the material world – which they viewed as created by the demiurge – and embraced the spiritual world.[1] Gnostic ideas influenced many ancient religions[2] that teach that gnosis (variously interpreted as knowledge, enlightenment, salvation, emancipation or 'oneness with God') may be reached by practicing philanthropy to the point of personal poverty, sexual abstinence (as far as possible for hearers, entirely for initiates) and diligently searching for wisdom by helping others .... In Gnosticism, the world of the demiurge is represented by the underworld, which is associated with matter, flesh, time and, more particularly, an imperfect, ephemeral world. The world of God is represented by the upper world and is associated with the soul and perfection. The world of God is eternal and not part of the physical. It is impalpable and timeless"
While people do not formally call themselves, "gnostic" in their religious denomination on censuses taken by governments, it is entirely possible for people to subscribe to its heretical ideas, including pseudo-forms such as the idea expressed in the sentiment above. In this statement, it is a blend of both Gnosticism, as well as Puritanism/Jansenism.
Applied to the statement above, the Novus Ordo Church is what is the demigurge, associated with improprieties in form, in the priest's demeanor, supposed poor theological education and lack of proper formation, and the majority of the laity as a whole being hypocrites to the Scriptures. The Novus Ordo Church, in the mind of bloggers and other Radical Traditionalists, is the demigurge, associated with only a face value love of Jesus.
Where the Pharisicm/Jansenism comes in, is that in the Catholic Church, is that in Pharicism/Jansenism, there is a high strictness for criteria of worshiping the Lord, according to specific ritual, law etc. as placed on papers, in definitions, etc. with no other interpretation but the most strictest.
Further, Jansenism as applied in the Catholic Church, was more of a practical level, denying Sacraments in combination with a lack of mercy and forgiveness, but also implying a denial of freely received and used grace, including free will. Today, these neo-Jansenists apply that theology in new ways with the Latin Mass and Roman Rite, whereby only the Latin Mass is "TRUE" Catholic Worship with true grace and true sacramental gifts, and where the TRUE Catholic faith is. The Novus Ordo, and the people within it are receiving a "bastardized" form of the faith, where the True Church is nearly all but absent.
How to we tie this all back into the statement from the attack on Dave Armstrong? Well, due to a misconstrued understranding of true Catholic tradition, the statement commits a fallacy in stating that the Novus Ordo, essentially, is a second class form of the Mass, and everyone involved is not a true believer, or are hypocrites. Thus, the only true form of the Mass in the Latin Rite is the Extraordinary Form, 'untouched by heresy and the Devil', and only those who attend this form of the rite, and believe everything that the neo-Jansenists and other "True remnants of the Catholic faith", the priests who serve it, are true sons of Christ, who are sacramentally nourished.
One could also argue that such a statement and the behaviour underlying the statement, even dovetails along the line of other schismatic groups in Church history, such as the Donatists.
The Killer .... Common Sense and the Statement Above Insults Normal Novus Ordo Catholics!
So, you may think I, beacause I am not of Holy Orders, or have umpteen theological degrees, have utter hogwash. Well, then, in preparation for a response of denial of my arguments, I decided to see just how offensive this statement is to those "simple" Novus Ordo Catholics.
Taking a poll of my friends on Facebook, I asked what they felt about this statement, positive or negative, or neutral. I received a good half to full dozen responses at this time, all from differrent perspectives. but also, one could say, different levels of Catholic education and involvement in the Church. Of the responses, I shall post the most prominent of the responses that illustrate the hatred and contempt (and even, possible heresy) of the comment. Two actually go together. All contributors names have been withheld to prevent Facebook stalking.
The first, from "Joan":
" XXXXXXXXX Yeah, kinda rubbed the wrong way by this. Someone who is Catholic, and therefore abides by Jesus' teachings, is telling others not to come to his/her blog because his/her profound statements are for people who think like him/her only. Doesn't that run contrary to the whole point of Jesus' teachings? What if He'd said at the beginning of a parable that it was only for those who were already following Him, or who agreed with what He'd taught in a previous lesson, or whatever, and everyone else should go away? I mean, of course it's this person's right to say and do as he/she sees fit, but I don't know, it doesn't seem very...Catholic."
What I love about this statement is it is quite common sensical, and even just on common sense alone, the argument is nearly blown away, and the hypocrisy and LACK of Christ`s example is present.
Next, someone, ``Augustine,`` a recent graduate of a Catholic-run theology School in Toronto, with a Masters in either Theology/Divinity, adds onto Joan's comments with this:
" XXXXXXXXXX [Joan] has already said what needs to be said but as a theologian I feel the need to point out that this person is dangerously close to denying that the NO sacraments are just as efficacious as the VO ones."
Ouch! Clearly this graduate, who
has the proper credentials of study in Catholic Theology, is supporting what Joan has said, and adding a wealth more. Further, he support what I have said in my advanced section with this statement coming close to, if not containing, heresy. Mind you, I am not surprised at this heresy in a way, as the Society of St. Pius X speaks in a similar manner about the Novus Ordo, with firm detestment, and even statements in past such as it being "evil" which convey the same heretical message.
Finally, I will display some commentary from a devout, woman, "Theresa" who has attended the Latin Mass, though mainly attends the Novus Ordo. Despite not being a theologian, a Catholic teacher, or a lay minister of any sorts, her statement is full of knowledge, Truth of the Faith, and is powerful:
" The Catholic church, in it's truest meaning is an Universal Church, It includes everyone. The Magisterium permits either form of Mass and adherents to either form were extolled not to hold the other form in contempt. His statement belies both the universality of his Church and the acceptance of both forms."
Whoa. This one blew me away. This is quite a catechesis indeed!!! Universal, is one of the 4 marks of the Church, meaning Christ meant it for everyone. This is something basic that I've taught to confirmandi in past, and is key. Christ meant salvation for everyone, not just a select few.
Further, the Magisterium is the authority of the Church on matters of the Faith, including its deposit of dogmas/doctrines (what must be believed by all Members of the Church, even if struggling with the concepts,) and the lessons of Christ and the Moral Truth. Yes, this is true, and even in Trad Hero, Benedict Emeritus XVI's Summorum Pontificum, he reiterates this concept of NOT bashing the other form of the Roman Rite, from either side.
Finally, that last statement ..... it's clear as day. This Mark of the Church, universality, is being denied in the statement, and the statement is also tratorious to the author's causes, and one of his Latin Mass heroes, Benedict XVI, who "freed" (though the Latin Mass was never legally/formally banned), the Latin Mass.
............................................................................
This just had to be countered. Offensive to the Church, as proven here by fellow `simple`` Catholics who attend the Novus Ordo Mass, and even heretical, I, Julian at Servimus Unum Deum, could not allow this to stand and with the help of my friends, I must "apologize", as in engage in Apologetics, against this statement, sadly even against my own Sibling in Christ.
All of us, have the duty, as a spiritual work of Mercy, as well as Practicing Roman Catholics, to instruct those needing counsel on matters of THE Faith, but as well to be proud and defend our truly universal, One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
Pax Tibi Christi, Julian.
